Lessons Learned Panel Discussion

ROOTS TO SEEDS Lessons Learned Panel Discussion on Our 13 year Healing Justice Journey
Saturday, December 18, 2021
**Transcript below**

As part of Third Root Community Health Center’s final season, past and present Third Root worker-owners and collective members shared their contemplations on Third Root in this virtual panel. This panel is part commemoration, and part collective sharing of our lessons learned, and wishes for the future of healing justice.

In our final moments as a collective, we dream of this work as seeds that scatter to the wind, and take root as future healing justice endeavors in many corners of the globe. What does Third Root’s legacy of healing justice look like when freed from a place and building? Join, remember, and dream with us.

Moderator:

• Alejandro DeSince – they/them – social media manager and yoga practitioner

Guided Chair Yoga:

• Maisah Hargett – she/her – Yoga and Reiki practitioner, Urban Zen Integrative Therapy

Featuring:

• Julia Bennett L.Ac – she/her – acupuncturist, herbalist, Third Root co-founder
• Dr. Makeba “MJ” Judge – she/her – acupuncturist and former collective member
• John Halpin L.Ac – he/him – former Third Root acupuncturist
• Romina Rodriguez-Crosta – she/her – personal practice is rooted in yoga, meditation, mindfulness and connecting with nature
• Dr. Roopa Bala Singh – she/her – Assistant Professor, Legal Studies and Civic Engagement College of Arts, Humanities, and Social Sciences, California State University, Monterey Bay
• Jomo Alakoye-Simmons L.Ac – he/him – acupuncturist
• Green Wayland-Llewellin L.Ac, MAOM – she/her – licensed acupuncturist, herbalist and medical massage therapist committed to health justice
• Mona Eldahry L.Ac, DACM, Dipl. OM – she/her – acupuncturist, birth doula, practitioner of Traditional Chinese Medicine.
• Emily J. Kramer – she/her – yoga practitioner and collective member
• Vanessa Nisperos LMSW – she/they – director and collective member. Specialties: trauma counseling, somatic healing, and organizational wellness consultant
• Jacoby Ballard – he/him – yoga practitioner and Third Root co-founder
• Nicolette Dixon, RYT-200 – she/her – student conflict resolution, University of Michigan; former collective member
• Geleni Fontaine L.Ac – they/them – acupuncturist and former collective member

Transcript

*** This transcript provides a summary to facilitate communication access and may not be a fully verbatim record of the proceedings. ***

[Music ♫ – Boys II Men “It’s So Hard to Say Goodbye to Yesterday”]

Alejandro DeSince: Alright, welcome everybody. Thank you for joining us this afternoon. Or whatever time it is wherever you’re joining from.

First some quick housekeeping. Live captioning is enabled for this recording. So if you’d like to see subtitles, you can feel free to click on the three dots. The “More” button. And select “Show subtitle.”

It’s such a huge pleasure and honor to be sharing this space with you all this afternoon.

Thanks for Zooming in today. My name is Alejandro. Or you can call me “A.” My pronouns are they/them/theirs. And ze/zem/zir. And I’m the social media manager and a yoga instructor with Third Root.

I’m joining you from the lands of the Munsee Lenape and Canarsee. Today’s Sunset Park neighborhood of Brooklyn.

Before we get started, I’d like to invite everyone to join me in a quick grounding breath to settle in. We’ll have a brief care and bio break scheduled after about an hour.

So just for a moment from wherever you are, feel free to find something aside from your screen to look at for a moment. Or close your eyes if you feel comfortable.

If you’d like you can take your hands and have them either palm side down on your lap. Or place one on the heart and one on the stomach.

And I’ll invite you to inhale for a count of 4.

And 3. 2. And 1.

Holding at the top for 3. 2. 1.

Before exhaling for 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, and 1.

Feel free to take another one of those if you’d like to.

It’s going to be a very juicy and very full conversation this afternoon. So hope you have a drink. Feel free to settle in. And let’s get started.

So as part of Third Root Community Health Center’s final season, we are joined today by present and past Third Root worker-owners, stakeholders, and collective members in this virtual panel.

Today’s panel is going to be part celebration, and part commemoration.

It’s also a space to hear the visions that helped shape Third Root, lessons learned, and our wishes for the future of healing justice.

After 13 years of holistic health services in Flatbush, Brooklyn, how do we even begin to say goodbye to such a journey?

In these final moments, we dream of this work as seeds that scatter in the wind. To take root as future healing justice endeavors in many corners.

So thank you for joining us to celebrate, commemorate, and dream with us what the future of healing justice can be.

To give folks an idea of what the structure of today’s conversation is going to be, we’re going to move through 4 parts. Starting at the roots, with the visions that spoke and led to the founding of Third Root and brought all of these panelists there.

The trunks, involving lessons learned. Sometimes hard, sometimes affirming the work that we do, sometimes affirming the necessity of the work we do. That we’re involved in the process, and how those lessons are informing these beautiful people’s work today.

Flowers, showing where folks are today, and what they’re continuing to offer as a healer and practitioner in the world.

And then seeds. Hearing recommendations on the future of healing justice work.

And we have more than 90 folks signed up for this panel tonight. And we definitely plan on getting you all involved in the conversation. We’ll have a few questions that you can respond to in the chat. We’ll have a Q&A. And we’ll have the chat open throughout this panel for comments throughout as well.

If you haven’t taken a moment to already, I’d love to know where folks are joining us from today.

So please feel free to drop in the chat your name, your pronouns, the space that you’re currently in and whose traditional lands you’re on. And if you don’t already know the name of whose traditional lands you’re on, you can quickly look up your address at native-land.ca

[Participants responding]

Amazing, beautiful. Please feel free to keep introducing yourselves in the chat. And thank you for taking a moment to share and acknowledge the lands that we’re occupying.

I’ve just gotten a thumbs up from my team.

So without further ado, let’s get into unpacking some of Third Root’s 13-year history.

First we’ll be joined by Jacoby and Julia. Jacoby Ballard is a yoga and Buddhism teacher residing on Shoshone, Ute, Paiute, and Goshute land, now known as Salt Lake City, Utah.

His work sits at the intersection of embodiment, social justice, and healing.

He has taught queer and trans yoga all over the country since 2006. And just released his first book, A Queer Dharma: Yoga and Meditations for Liberation.

And Mama Julia is an elder walking in the path of healing for most of her lifetime. Southern born and raised, Julia stands committed to wipe out all forms of oppression, using the platform of eastern medicine and herbalism as her primary tools.

Thank you, Jacoby and Julia for joining us this afternoon.

So I’d like to get started with the two of you at the founding of Third Root about 13 years ago in 2008. And ask what the vision for Third Root was at the time.

Jacoby Ballard: Hi everyone. So lovely to see so many familiar faces and names.

Part of the vision for Third Root back in 2008 was to do holistic healing at the intersection of social justice. And now that’s much more of a common practice now.

But at the time, it was really carving some space for that. To return holistic healing modalities to the people. Having seen acupuncture be fairly unreachable for most people. Yoga, all the modalities that we came to offer.

So wanting them to be accessible to everyone.

For our clients to be self-determined in their care, and empowered in their care. I remember Green and I talking about the ambition that is along the line of community organizers to work ourselves out of a job.

For the providers and owners, the students and clients, to reflect the larger neighborhood. Racially, ethnically, in terms of language spoken, gender, sexualities, ages.

A pretty lofty goal. But that was part of the vision!

To inspire other healing justice projects. For them to adapt the principles that we were guided by to their own community. Knowing that there needed to be many places like Third Root in order for our communities and our country to be truly healthy and well.

And then to strengthen the New York City social movement organizations. Envisioning healing as a campaign, as a budget line, as a core value in these organizations. Which I think has become so not just because of our influence, but perhaps partially due to our influence at Third Root.

And then lastly to do the work internally. Knowing that we create a space and have an institution that we invite the public into. And also from the very beginning we were doing workshops with one another on anti-oppression. And to learn how to be in solidarity with each other. Which is such an ongoing process right?

Because the world is not one of justice yet. So there’s lots of stuff that comes up in that. But I think even just having that intention and building skills was important.

Julia I’ll hand it over to you.

Alejandro DeSince: Julia, you have- both of you have a history of healing work that starts before Third Root. And Julia especially. Could you speak a little bit about your history of healing justice work, and what about Third Root’s vision spoke to you, in its founding?

Julia Bennett: Greetings, everyone. And just always welcome to all the ways you have supported Third Root.

Just continue to be welcome in all of the places in the world that we look to to have balance and harmony and justice in the world.

So welcome.

Gosh I don’t know what to say. But thank you Jacoby for just standing in this vision, you and Green, and inviting all of us into this idea of building a just community around health.

I’ve been an underground health practitioner for so many years. When I started doing acupuncture, of course many people know, I started learning acupuncture as a detox specialist up at Lincoln Hospital, where they were doing detox for people who were addicted to substance.

I worked in that arena of activism, started there. I worked with and alongside many people who were trained by some of those people who started that program up at Lincoln. The Lincoln NADA detox program.

And not to go on and on about that. But acupuncture wasn’t legal at that time, in the late 70s, early 80s. So I always practiced everything that I learned from Lincoln underground. So that was one of the most exciting things I think about being a barefoot doctor.

Is that no matter what you learn, there’s always a way to give it to the people.

And I really appreciate being able and having the impetus and the bravery and the commitment to keep giving everything that I learned back to the people.

So I just give thanks and praise for that. And my kinship with the vision of Third Root certainly comes along, and comes out of just witnessing and experiencing so much oppression in the journey of my life.

And so having this connection with Lincoln, and then Third Root was certainly in keeping with what I always believed.

Again that’s acquiring the wisdom of healing, and bringing it back to the people. We owe it to community. We owe it to people. We owe it to changing and transforming the world. To give everything we know back to the people. Because we are all the people. And we don’t have the right to hold information. We don’t have the right to harbor access.

And Third Root was a place that envisioned that, and held space for that to happen. I’m just so grateful to have had the opportunity in my life. Of course I could have gone and done a million other things. But just being in a space that was committed to stamping out all forms of oppression was the place I knew I needed to be.

Good times, hard times, exhilarating times, it was still and still is a place so dear to my heart.

And I will continue to carry the vibration of that for all the days, all the days of my life. Check.

Alejandro DeSince: Thank you, Mama Julia. And Papa Jacoby for sharing a little bit. We’ll definitely be hearing more from you throughout this chat.

As I come to introduce our next two panelists joining us up here, I’d also like to invite everyone, if you’re in a space where you feel comfortable to, to please turn on your cameras if you like.

We have about 50 people in the space at the moment. And we’d love to see all the many faces that have definitely either graced the doors of Third Root, or joined us virtually, or supported us from afar, and just extend that love to you.

Joining me now are Roopa and Green.

Green founded, cofounded The Vital Compass 9 years ago. Which is another worker-owner run acupuncture clinic and herbary, herbal medicinary in Portland, Oregan.

He, along with Jacoby are the cofounders of Third Root. As well, they are on the cusp of writing a business plan to add the wholesale of herbal liniments, which will allow pain-relieving herbal medicine to reach more people, create jobs, and help stabilize the business.

Green’s been practicing Chinese medicine full time since 2008. And their goal to keep getting better clinically and beyond.

Also joining us is Roopa, whose writing addresses yoga as racial property. Forthcoming with the Denver Law Review. And begins to build the field of critical yoga studies.

Roopa is an incoming Associate Professor of Property Law and currently works as an Assistant Professor of Legal Studies and Civic Engagement at California State University in Monterey Bay.

Roopa’s nationwide panel project, SAAPYA, the South Asian American Perspectives on Yoga, in 2013-2016 was the first public discourse site to break ground in race and cultural appropriation in yoga.

It’s a huge pleasure and honor to be joined by the 4 of you up here now.

And before we continue on with this conversation, I think it may be helpful to offer a few definitions of what we’re even talking about when we say “healing justice.”

So I’d like to invite the two of you, along with your introductions to Third Root, what is your definition of healing justice? How that relates to your work history. And ultimately how that brought you to connect to the work and vision of Third Root. Green?

Green Wayland-Llewellin: Yeah! I may or may not answer everything you just me to answer! [Laughing]

It took me a good long time to remember where I was before Third Root started. I just want to speak to that. Because this is a time for a lot of you that are currently involved with Third Root to be before your next thing.

I was in a place where I had for years known that I wanted to start some kind of a center. Even before I went to school for acupuncture.

I knew that I wanted to work for myself but not by myself. And I knew that I had a lot to learn from other people.

And so when I first met Jacoby, and he and I were talking about what we could possibly do that is different from what already exists in the world, I was newly exposed to terms like “justice” and “healthcare.”

I was like ooh! That sounds really important. [Laughing]

And I didn’t have a background of knowledge. And I didn’t have a background in organizing. And I didn’t have a background in business.

I just wanted a place where I felt safe and comfortable and trusted. And I wanted to be among other people that could feel trusted, and safe, and have the room to experiment and grow in the ways that they would grow.

Yeah. I remember we just talked about the vision of the kind of place where we wanted to work. We didn’t know what a worker cooperative was. But we were like it needs to be really fair!

And everybody needs to work together. And what is it?

We were speaking with Famous who said, “that’s a worker cooperative.”

So anyhow, that’s where I’m going to leave it.

Thank you all. I’ve continued to learn so much from Third Root. I’m looking forward to the rest of this conversation today. I’m taking notes.

Alright. Thanks.

Alejandro DeSince: Thank you so much, Green.

Now I’ll pass the mic over to Roopa.

Dr. Roopa Bala Singh:  Greetings, namaste. I wanted to pick up from something that Julia had said about Lincoln Hospital.

In summer of 1970, the Young Lords took over Lincoln Hospital. Obviously that organizing didn’t happen immediately. It must have been going on for some time.

I respect that tradition very much. A longstanding tradition that Third Root picked up a baton from. It didn’t create out of nowhere, right?

Especially not in New York City. You can’t say that that intersection of wellness and social justice was completely new.

I feel like Third Root and me working there at the time in yoga was like positioned between that trajectory of social justice and the Young Lords of New York City, and also this mythology around yoga that mirrors what we hear around Thanksgiving.

Oh well, “the ‘Indians’ or ‘Native people’ gave the country over to the occupiers.” The violent occupiers were just given this gift. And that mythology also exists in yoga where it’s like, there were these early colonized gurus and yogis who came over to the United States at the end of the 1800s and essentially said, “here, we’re giving you this gift from the east to the west.”

So this mythology is very strong, yet in yoga, and yet it sounds just like the Thanksgiving one. And it relies on this very particularly settler-colonial idea of property.

That’s like, well, if you give it to me, then it’s exclusively mine.

I feel that the entire time I was at Third Root and until now, there’s this kind of tension between those two strata. Those two sides of the coin.

And this push and pull there. I think the last thing that I’ll say right now, again to pick up from where our moderator led us, to acknowledge where we live. And the longer trajectory of where we live.

And I would say, my work right now in yoga and the law also asks us to do something similar with the terrain of intellectual property or ideas.

And so Julia in her bio named, “I do these eastern practices.” At least there’s a nod toward the fact that if you are a yoga practitioner, if you’re doing stuff with Buddhism, if you are doing acupuncture, any of this, it comes from somewhere.

It has histories. It has peoples outside of settler-colonial US.

So we should all acknowledge our land. And also come to terms with acknowledging that actually, many people coming in and out of Third Root continue to build careers on practices that are not necessarily indigenous, or there’s tension around where they are indigenous to.

It would behoove us all to strive to name that. Because some of us- here’s the last thing I’ll say. In terms of work and labor.

Not everyone leaves out of this closure with equity. Not everybody came in on equal standing.

And this idea that we work ourselves out of jobs, well the reality on the ground is that some people are doing quite well, and are going to regardless. And others will struggle. And have been, regardless.

And so I think that’s important to be truthful about, and name.

What has Third Root done for people, and continue to do? And how does that puzzle fit along those general lines of social hierarchies? And struggles? I’m very honored to be able to share my truth and all this.

Lots of love to everybody.

Alejandro DeSince: Thank you so so so much Roopa. And we are sad that you can’t be staying for the entire conversation. So thank you for giving us a little bit of perspective on the work that you’re doing.

And we’ll definitely keep folks informed on how they can follow up on the work that you’re doing, and the studies that you’re a part of.

So thank you so much for your work and your countless labor.

Before we move on to our next question, exploring the roots of Third Root and inviting other panelists into the fold, and to introduce themselves, I’d love to pose a question to the audience again.

And just take a meter to see how many folks here have ever been to Third Root in person or virtually. You can feel free to drop into the chat if you have ever had the opportunity to either walk through our storefronts, located in Ditmas Park, or taken a virtual service, especially over these last few years as we opened up more virtual offerings.

That’ll give us a moment to get our other panelists up here as well.

I’m seeing lots of yes’s. Folks sharing that they’ve gone for herbs and help with decision-making and navigating herbalism.

Many times for many things. Beautiful.

Joining us up here now is John Halpin. John Halpin is an acupuncturist and one of the first group of Third Root cooperative members in 2008. And he currently works in nonprofit fundraising.

John, very thankful for you joining us today. I want to ask you and any other panelists who’d like to join and be part of this conversation of roots, what exactly about Third Root’s vision spoke to you? And why did you find a home at Third Root?

And if when you introduce yourself you can share your pronouns, where you’re joining us from, and maybe other aspects of your personal professional practice.

John Halpin: Sure. Hi everybody. I’m John, he/him. Calling in today from Hastings on Hudson, New York.

I joined Third Root in 2008. And was invited to come down and meet with a few of the first members. It was still a construction site. We sat on an upside-down bucket.

I joined as an acupuncturist. I was involved through the start doing community acupuncture.

What really called me to the vision of Third Root is, before I went to acupuncture school I’d been involved in social justice work.

Going into acupuncture was kind of like a complete 180 from that. While I was in school, this whole movement around community acupuncture started by a group of people in Portland, Oregon. It quickly spread around the country.

I was so excited. All of a sudden there was this way to practice acupuncture that merged with my interest in social justice and making it accessible to a broad range of people.

When I was connected to this group of practitioners who wanted to do all sorts of modalities that were accessible and affordable to everyone and really had a vision for how health and justice could merge, it really spoke to me.

And it was such a privilege to be involved for a number of years in those first years.

And I learned so much during that time and have such fond memories from it. I’m just excited to hear from all the other people today who’ve been with Third Root past and present over a wonderful 13 years.

Alejandro DeSince: Amazing, thank you, thank you.

Next question I have for all of our panelists are- I’ll pause for a second. And invite any other panelists who’d like to introduce themselves and talk about their work leading up to their joining Third Root, to join us up here.

Romina Rodriguez: Hi I’d like to pop in to this panel. My name’s Romina Rodriguez, she/her. Currently in Los Angeles. That’s Chumash and Gabrieleno land.

And along with John and Jacoby and Green and Julia, one of those first members who got this thing off the ground.

I feel like I want to add a little bit of the experience of gestating and birthing this thing. I was really young when I came to this project. We were all young, I think maybe not necessarily in age, but in who we were.

Because if we can even go back to what it felt like, like how Green was saying, back in 2008. What did life feel like back then? How did we feel like back then?

Social justice has come leaps and bounds. Where it’s a word that is almost commonplace now in the United States.

And back in 2007, it was not. It felt like this fringe idea. And when I met these folks, I was just applying for a job. There was a recession, I was a yoga teacher, I was and still a performing artist.

And I just wanted a job. And then I went to this place. And they were speaking this language that had been in the back of my mind but not formed of what I wanted to actually do with my yoga practice, which was not just make money from it.

But to actually make it something accessible to so many people.

And then hear I found these folks who were like yeah, we can give you a job. But actually we want to give you a movement! We want you to be a part of this movement. And I was like OK! Sign me up!

And I’m really glad that, you know obviously I’m really glad that I did. We’re all really glad that we did. And also thankful that we were young and didn’t know how much work it was going to take to really get this place going. Because that first year was a huge struggle.

And if we had maybe known how much of a struggle maybe some of us would have backed down. And I’m so thankful that no one did. Because it took that huge push to get it going.

And then the later folks who came and kept that vision going did so much to keep it going.

And I’m so thankful for them. But right now talking about the roots, that’s how it was. Imagine 13, 14 years ago. Totally different city, different world that we were in.

Alejandro DeSince: Thank you for that. I would like to actually parse that out a little bit more. Like you’re saying, there were a lot of lessons learned in those 13 years. Sometimes they remind us of the necessity of our work and sometimes they affirm that our work is moving in the direction that we want to see it.

So when this group of folks, thinking about the last 13 years of shared history in the space, are there any particular challenges or successes that come to your mind?

Romina you mention that first year especially. So I imagine there are a few perspectives at least on that.

Now I’ll open for anyone to share from their perspectives.

Romina Rodriguez: Just want to say one thing about that. I think what really kept us going in that first year was just the incredible enthusiasm. The enthusiasm and the excitement of the vision.

And at that moment- the work changed over the 13 years. But in the beginning because it was this breaking ground, putting structure to something that felt like a dream. It was that enthusiasm and that excitement and this shared dream.

And it was this infectious excitement. So I was excited and if it was kind of hard for me that week, then I would take Jacoby’s excitement to get me through that week.

But then once we finally opened those doors, you know the doors that we built. We finally opened them and then people came in and started expressing gratitude and being so thankful that we were there.

I mean that just made it all worth it. That made all the sacrifice worth it. I don’t even like to call it sacrifice. That made all the struggle worth it.

Julia Bennett: Thank you for that, Romina. Everything that you said is exactly I think what each of us experienced and what we felt. And it was just so exciting to be just in the waters with Third Root. And just learning how to swim through so many unknowns.

And as Green said, really none of us knew anything about anything. So we were all learning to just figure things out as we went along. Of course over the years we had so many new people come and bring their incredible brilliance and ideas. And to just shake Third Root to what it ended up being.

Of course because we didn’t know very much it was just like difficult to figure out how to have sustainability in the vision that we had. But again like Romina said it was all so worth it.

Because when people walked through that door and we were able to hold our arms out to them and they just fell into our arms, nothing could be more gratifying than to have someone appreciate you. I don’t care who you are, we all want to be appreciated for the work that we do.

And to receive that from thousands and thousands and thousands of people has been something that’s just phenomenal.

And no one can put a price tag on that. No one can put any particular kind of energy on that except it was just the most gratifying experience that I think I’ve had.

And at my age I’ve had many. And so I just learned so much about every aspect of my humanity. But also so many other people’s humanity.

Because we walked into the door with ourselves. But we brought the history of who we are, and all of our isms. All of our shortcomings. All of our not knowings. All of our prejudice.

We learned but we also had so many things to unlearn. And so I’m just grateful for all of the things in a big way that I’ve had to unlearn to be a part of my own deepest humanity. To live in the world with my full self.

And so I just appreciate those beginnings. Because that really opened up so many doors around who I am today.

So I’m just really grateful for everyone that’s come through Third Root. All of our co-owners but particularly those in the beginning.

Because we really had to chip away at so many things. And the biggest thing we had to chip away was those things in ourselves that would get in the way of us being powerful healers in the world.

I’m just really really grateful to each and every one of you. It’s just a joy to be here with you and to listen to your stories. And I can’t wait to hear, I’m going to call you out Ji-hye. What do you have to say?

And then all of the new people. Makeba, come on y’all, Jomo- Nicolette, come on you all, let’s hear from you. Because everything that you all have put out has made such a huge difference. And I learned something from all of you that I will carry- I can say it over and over and over.

I am just so grateful for each and every one of you. So give thanks for your life and your journey.

Alejandro DeSince: Thank you for that call-in Julia. Let’s get Makeba and Jomo up here, please, definitely.

Please if you have any thoughts and reflections on this question as well. Any lessons or challenges that in particular stand out to you in this 13-year legacy. Please, take a moment to introduce yourself as well.

Dr. Makeba “MJ” Judge:  Jomo you want me to go? I’ll go. [Laughing]

Alright. Hey everyone. You can call me MJ. I’m Makeba. I was an acupuncturist with Third Root. Can you guys hear me OK?

I’m going to also click this heater because it is so cold in here from the AC. But anyway.

I was an acupuncturist, an herbalist at Third Root from I believe late 2011 on until 2015. Like towards the end of 2015 or so.

I came in sometime before we had that big hurricane. And I remember seeing Geleni at, I don’t know if it was a farmer’s market or something. In Prospect Heights. And just saying “I need to be a part of what you’re doing here!” [Laughing.]

But you know that’s for question 1. I really wanted to be a part of what was going on at Third Root. And I can say overall that my experience was so amazing. Hey Mona! Was so fulfilling and so amazing.

And you know we learned some great lessons. We learned some tough lessons and some easy lessons. But overall they were still great lessons to learn.

And it was so nice, just hearing the accounts of the original owners. Because Green, I don’t think I’ve every met Green or Romina and it’s amazing to just see what was going on in the minds of the original owners. I think I was more part of the second wave or so.

But some of the lessons that I learned revolve around team work, I think. I think that in teamwork, just in defining teams right?

And clarifying the mission goals and the aims of that team I think were some of the toughest lessons that we had to learn.

Because as we know now, “team” means something different maybe to everyone right?

And we all have different aims and different goals in mind when forming teams. And I think that it was so important to clearly define some of that stuff.

I think that that was one of those tough lessons that we had to learn because when we have those in groups and those out groups, they can really steer the course, the direction of the mission. Be it negative or positive.

And I’m sure I’ve been on both sides of that as well. [Laughing]

In teamwork, mission aimed from the very beginning. And I think that the original group managed to do that so well.

And we just added on to that. And- just making sure my sound is OK.

And we added on to that. I also just really importantly- and I don’t want to take up a lot of time. I did realize my own capacity and limitations in healing as well. And that was also a really tough lesson for myself, for me to learn internally. To do that deep spiritual work on myself.

I realized that I needed to check my own ego. In some of the goals that I had. Some of them were lofty goals that I had. As a healer.

And come to terms with the healing that I needed to do within myself on a personal level.

And I needed to reassess how I affect my own world and the world of other people around me. In the way that I was showing up. And the way that I was loving myself and then in turn loving other people around me. Or not showing love to those around me.

And I realized that I then had to unburden myself with this goal of wanting to heal community and heal the world around me. And really doing that internal work. And then working outward. And I think that that was one of the biggest lessons that I learned. And that now, as I leave Third Root or parted ways with Third Root back in 2015, now only in 2020, 2021 I began doing the work during the pandemic of, OK now I’m ready to go out into the community.

Because I’ve cultivated that love and patience with myself. And healed a lot of things that needed to be healed. So for me those were lessons.

I know they’re a little more personal. But those were the lessons that I learned. But overall just so much gratitude for the patience that you guys showed me while I was learning those lessons.

Jacoby, and Julia, and Emily, and Cameron. And I’m just looking at everyone who was there when I was there. Jomo and Sherley and Roopa and Mona as well. Mona you were there for a bit while I was there.

Just everyone who I affected around me, I want to say thank you for the patience that you guys showed me!

As I was growing and healing from those wonderful experiences that I had at Third Root.

Alejandro DeSince: Thank you for that MJ. Jomo I know you also wanted to respond to this prompt right?

Jomo Alakoye-Simmons: Thank you. I’m responding to the second question right?

Alejandro DeSince: Any and all of it, yeah.

Whatever vision of Third Root spoke to you that brought you to it. And lessons that you’ve learned here through either challenges or successes.

Jomo Alakoye-Simmons: Alright well, my memory’s a bit muddled. But I actually remember Third Root when it was in its construction phase.

I don’t remember who it was that invited me there.

I just remember there were rooms that weren’t finished. Side walls weren’t completed.

But at that time I also had, I started my own practice in Harlem in ’09.

And jump forward probably 2 years later. Probably 2011. Geleni, whom I attended Chinese medical school with, had reached out to me. Or reached out to our class group actually, and asked if anyone was interested in doing substitute acupuncture there.

And I was like yeah, I need the money. So context, because this also plays into the second question.

When I was in medical school, I didn’t read what happens when you graduate. I had a vision to- it was split between opening a practice in the communities, or community that I was living in. And leaving New York and working and living in the country.

To give even more context, the words I would use at this time is, and I’ve used for the past 15 years if not longer- I didn’t know it then. I didn’t think of it then in that way. But I was a very staunch anti-capitalist.

So I didn’t put a lot of, I didn’t put any investment into a 401K when I worked for the big company.

I didn’t put any- I mean I invested in it. But I didn’t, my vision was 2012, this shit will fall.

When computers get to a certain point, this will crash. That was my mindset.

So when I graduated from Swedish, I quit my job. I had reached a point where I was frustrated, deeply frustrated. But I was also dealing with a lot that I can reflect on now.

And I didn’t know how to talk with people about what I was experiencing. I was dealing with a lot of trauma that was unresolved from working at 9-11 day of. And relationships and family stuff.

So I just walked away from my job. I took a package. 100K. Took the package. And I remember the person that I was referred to for financial planning was like, look.

You should put this away and do this and this. I was like no, I’m not.

I’m going to open up my practice. I thought at that time because of Barack Obama coming into office, the stimulus package, that the government would subsidize acupuncture.

I was of the impression in thinking that I would be able to treat people in my community in Brooklyn and in Harlem who had Medicaid and get subsidized from it.

I also thought that, I envisioned, I was like yay, I’m doing a service for the public. I’m labeling my practice as a community practice. So I would have my loans forgiven.

None of which was true. Or accurate.

And again I didn’t do a lot of research. I was focused on learning the medicine, cultivating the medicine, and bringing the medicine to the people. To my people.

And so when Geleni reached out, I said yep I’m jumping on. I probably did about 3 or 4 substitute sessions there. And then Geleni reached out to me in 2012. And said- yeah Geleni reached out to me in 2012 and said we have an opening for a collective member. Practitioner. Would you like to come on?

And I had been struggling financially, clearly. With my own practice because I wasn’t charging any money, at all. I was charging even lower than Third Root.

And subsidizing that practice with that 100K. Everything.

And I said yeah, this’ll be an opportunity for me to bring in an additional source of income. And I would be able to fulfill that desire to work in a team with other practitioners, which was something I wanted to do.

And the word “social justice,” that wasn’t a word that I would use then. I don’t use it much now because, for me I was born into that.

It was, my life has been that. I won’t go into the dynamics but, what Julia shared, what Roopa shared, my teacher being a part of it, Geleni and I’s teacher being a part of that, when I opened my practice in Harlem, there was another black practitioner there, Dr. Woodbine.

And I approached him as my senior and said hey, I’d like to open a practice, I grew up here. This is where I was allowed to open up a place. ‘Cause I couldn’t find any place in Brooklyn to do it.

The hospitals weren’t taking it on or anything. He was like look man. There’ll never be enough acupuncturists here. [Laughing]

You know. Do it and let’s get it poppin’. And come to find out, I was just following a legacy that I knew of that wasn’t talked about. Because it was like, like African spirituality. We don’t talk about it outside the door back then.

It was some whispers, or go to bed and that’s that. And then I know about stuff or rituals would be done. But they didn’t explain it until I got older.

So here it is I’m older, and I’m hearing about all these practitioners who Julia worked with. Who years later, Dr. Trinidad, Dr. Beverley Hutchinson, they all came back to Third Root.

They came to Third Root and worked with Julia again in some capacity. So I was just following that tradition.

And it wasn’t a thinking of, as I was hearing the word “social justice”- it was about my conscious awareness as early as 9 was human rights, and earth rights. That was it.

That’s the equivalent of what social justice is now.

So the lessons that came out of it for me, I say the number 1 lesson is not to take things so personally.

And to learn how to put myself first for the benefit of my community.

And echoing what Makeba expressed about, and I see it definitely living here in the south now. In this part of the south I would say.

It’s a choice for people to- the first day I came down here and I walked into where I live now, after a 22-hour drive and thinking about how much my family had worked to get north of here. Was peace is a choice.

And a lot of us don’t want to be peaceful. And me making that choice to leave New York was a very personal choice. It was a choice where I reached upon- I said OK I’ve done everything I could do.

The only thing that I could do more was just make money, which was challenging.

While I was at Third Root that was one of the challenges, financially. But that was my choice to take on that financial challenge. It was my choice to live that way.

I made choices that I won’t say held me back. Because every time I might have struggled, there was something I was gaining in that as well.

Giving up that 100K also gave me a world of skills that is just beautiful.

I could do stuff that’s just out the world.

It was a blessed experience. That’s the best way I could put it.

I wouldn’t change anything. What I know now is what I know now. There wasn’t any mistakes in any step of the way.

Alejandro DeSince: Thank you so much, Jomo. I know we do have a couple other panelists that want to pop in for this question as well. So don’t be alarmed by the carousel of faces or rotation that might occur.

Nicolette, please take a moment to introduce yourself and share any lessons and reflections that you have.

Nicolette Dixon: Thank you Alejandro. Can everybody hear me OK? Great. Sorry if you also hear the crying baby in the background. I’m not sorry actually.

Hi, I’m Nicolette, I use she and her.

I joined Third Root, started being a part of Third Root in 2012. Actually New Year’s Eve. Almost 2013.

And came on as just a yoga student and a community member.

And then volunteered. And then a job opened up working the front desk. And I was so excited to just keep committing more and more.

I was inspired to become, or learn, get certified, what is the word I want? To call myself a yoga teacher.

And learn more about those traditions. And eventually, after sticking around for a while, became a collective member as well, briefly.

One thing I want to say about why, what drew me to Third Root, because I really started as like a yoga student. It was something that I- I’ve been practicing yoga since high school. But coming to Third Root was certainly not like any other place that I had ever practiced yoga.

For a couple of reasons. One, because there was the acknowledgement of yoga as a spiritual and personal practice from Southeast Asia that came, as Roopa said earlier, with a long history. And from many peoples.

And something more than exercise. And also really key for me was the idea that I had choice. Like Jomo just said peace is a choice. I think at stage of my life, feeling empowered in any kind of choice of my own, even bodily autonomy, wasn’t something that was strong in my life.

So coming into a class, and being encouraged to decide how to enter a pose, or whether to stand up at all was pretty revolutionary. And I didn’t know that that could exist.

So that was what hooked me.

Some of the things that I learned. I want to pick up on what some other people are saying.

First of all, yes absolutely to what Makeba said about my own ego. [Laughing]

I think that in my experience at Third Root I became so fanatical in a way, about the mission. And the vision. And the organization. And what was possible. That it was almost, the best way I can describe it is I couldn’t see the trees for the forest.

I wanted to do everything I could to support and push the work forward. But sometimes that meant that I didn’t treat the people around me with as much love and kindness as I could.

And I didn’t treat myself with forgiveness. And these are the things that were like espousing in our values. And I wasn’t living them.

So I think that was a huge lesson. Also Jomo thank you for bringing up the money thing. Because another lesson but question that still exists for me is how do you go against capitalism? How do you try to create something different? But people still need to live in capitalism. And still need to have enough to survive.

And it was, that was the hugest struggle I think. Just so so huge.

I’m trying to be conscious of time so we can hear more from all the amazing that are here. I made notes, that’s why I’m looking down.

Something, another challenge I just need to name in this moment is that because of all the work that the founders did, Third Root carries that weight, like nationally. And people had really high expectations. So sometimes I think it was challenging to be a flawed human within what was seen as a perfect organization.

And lastly I will share a success.

I was recently walking nearby. I don’t know, home. Down the street.

And a long-time Third Root community member stopped me or we ran into each other. We said hello. We started talking. And she shared how sad she was about Third Root closing.

And she shared that there was a time that she was practicing yoga and felt dizzy, didn’t feel well. And got scared. And thought what’s going to happen if I can’t walk, if I can’t get out of here? How am I going to get home?

And then was overcome with a feeling of calm and security in thinking, someone will make sure I get home OK. This is a place where I am cared for. I am among family.

I cried the rest of the way walking home. I think that was the moment it really hit me how much of a unicorn Third Root is.

I’ve never been a person of religion. And so I never had this kind of spiritual home. Or home of faith where you have faith in the other people around you.

And to find that in Brooklyn is like almost unbelievable. So I think that was a huge success. That I felt that, and she felt that. And we understood each other.

Alejandro DeSince: Thank you so much for those shares and reflections, Nicolette.

I know we have a couple of other panelists who want to pop in for this question at the very least. So I’ll pass that mic over to Geleni. Please introduce yourself and share anything that’s on your heart and mind.

Geleni Fontaine: Hi everybody, I’m Geleni. They/them. And yes I see waving hands, I see all your faces. I’m having one of those moments where that mosaic of the screen is really touching my heart.

Because I feel like it’s the unreeling of all of my own history at Third Root. Working with all of you in so many different ways.

I echo so much of what everybody said about the things that were beautiful and easy, and hard and also beautiful. And the lessons that we’re still taking with us.

I know that when I first came to Third Root I didn’t want to be working alone. I wanted to be practicing medicine that was going to be as accessible as possible to communities that I belong to. To communities that I intersect with and that I care about.

That meant the world to me. And to hear about Third Root’s vision was something that felt like home.

So I was very excited. It’s like all of our superhero origin stories, the things that first brought us in.

I remember those things. Those early conversations and emails. Hey! Have you heard? We’re looking! What would you think about-?

Yeah. It’s so amazing. I’ll keep it short. I really want to hear from so many folks. One of the things that I think about are all of the lessons from the different eras. I feel like, for me I had a lesson from the beginning of me starting as a collective member at Third Root.

That sense to not be afraid to vision.

To not be afraid to really expand the sense of what was possible.

And doing that with other people and how thrilling that was. And in the middle, my kind of middle age at Third Root was about considering, what is this work? What is this work?

It’s the work that we’re getting paid to do. Not enough. Always not enough right? But it’s also who we are. It’s our lives.

Each of us individually you know? And our families and our communities. So there couldn’t be that separation between doing the work of being in this collective, working on making it something that’s equitable and that addresses who we are as practitioners living our lives. As well as what we’re offering other people.

And that felt like something that I’m going to be carrying with me, hopefully forever.

And I think that what I’ve learned in my later life in Third Root is about how we have, how we’re part of a legacy. And that legacy is this ribbon that goes way behind me.

And I see going far in front of me too. It’s the legacy that Julia talked about. And Makeba. It’s that legacy that makes the connections between healing that’s people’s medicine. That isn’t property of anyone. That is open to everyone. By design.

And to speak that truth. And it’s also the legacy that allows that to continue in so many different ways.

And I’ll tell two quick stories. I was in a conversation with Cara Page, a few weeks back. And some folks know Cara Page as one of the founders of Kindred Healing Justice Circle. And a while back also one of the executive directors of the Audre Lorde Project.

And who’s done tremendous work for years. And she reminded me about what Third Root has meant.

That Third Root has been part of having these conversations, these discussions, and this creation of what we all mean by healing justice. And doing this work.

She reminded me that she and I sat on a panel like 10 or 11 years ago. Talking about healing justice when it wasn’t something that we were hearing talked about.

And that Third Root has been part of creating that possibility for so many different people.

And that possibility being formed in collectives, creating different ways of working together but also coming down to the care that people get. And the care that people give. Third Root’s been part of that and will continue to be.

The second story I’ll tell is that one of my last patients at Third Root last week, she’s one of the three people I treated who is going on to acupuncture school. After coming to Third Root for care.

Two of those people being young women of Chinese descent who were following through on their family’s tradition. And continuing that. And she reminded me that this was from her family, this was something that she’s continuing and she’s growing and it feels so organic.

But that her access to it, her point of access to it was through Third Root. And it reminded me we’re in that circle. We’re in that circle all together.

So I just want to share a lot of love and appreciation for everyone today.

To remember that we’re all in that circle. And we keep going. So thanks.

Alejandro DeSince: Thank you so much for those reminders Geleni.

And before we have our scheduled bio and care break, there’s one more original collective member who’d love to share a little bit. Ji-Hye, please feel invited to introduce yourself and share any lessons that you’ve learned through this process.

Ji-Hye Choi: Hi everyone. My name is Ji-Hye Choi. And I use she and her.

I am actually calling in from Brooklyn. So I moved to Kensington just last year.

So just really feel so happy to be back.

Obviously heard the news that Third Root was closing. That was definitely very sad. I went to the healer’s ball two weeks ago and that was really awesome to catch up with Angela. And I saw Karen the herbalist.

Emily obviously. Just really glad to see the space. Still beautiful and standing. Just can’t believe there’s no more Third Root there.

I was just standing there outside with one of the recent collective members. What’s going to happen to the space, right? Just can’t imagine that.

So a lot of different emotions actually come back to me. Especially because I’m back in Brooklyn.

Just a lot of memories right? I am one of the original members who joined Third Root very beginning years. Probably I think the first one to be interviewed by Green and Jacoby.

That was 2007. I graduated from acupuncture school 2007 winter time.

Just like other people who said, they’re just looking for a job, I was the same way.

But I can’t remember the exact job posting but it just sounded amazing you know?

I come from a background of working in non-profit organizations. So at the time I was working for Korean Community Services which is in Flushing. Which serves Korean community for a lot of different services for Korean immigrants.

So just coming from that background, I knew that I always wanted to be helpful for people who can’t get help in terms of, especially for medical and health related issues.

So when I saw the job posting I was really excited. It wasn’t just a job opportunity. It was something that was more than that.

So I remember just being so excited after talking to Jacoby and Green. Just wow, this is dream come true.

How this can happen to me. So yeah I definitely remember those days. Like other people said, nothing was there. It was just a concrete wall. Just bare bone daycare center. Just remembering painting the wall. And also we had contractors coming in.

And even building the drywall together. We participated in that.

And it was really empowering experience for me. Because I was helping out to do the drywall and I’m saying to myself, I can do this! You know? This is good, this feels good you know?

Just to be participating in that whole starting practice, building up.

It was just huge empowering experience for me. Just like everyone said, it really opened the door for so many reasons. Just like spiritually and personally. Just like Julia said before, I am who I am because what I went through with Third Root 14 years ago. And 13 years ago.

So there are so many lessons but obviously, when I was doing all this work with Third Root members, I started seeing things differently obviously.

I’m coming from a very religious background, very conservative background. So seeing all these things, learning, participating in meetings, social justice, just opening all the doors for me. And started seeing myself differently as well.

So personally, it was a huge thing. And really, I honestly still struggle a lot right now because I feel like a lot of times I’m caught in between two different worlds. In a way because right now, I am practicing. But I am working through kind of capitalistic model.

I work for corporate. I know the money’s there. And it’s how everything works. But it just feels like my heart is not there. You know what I mean? So maybe the model that I’m working for may work now. In terms of sustainability.

But it’s not feeding my soul. So I feel like that’s always been struggle for me. Because I experienced Third Root.

That’s always in the back of my mind. This is ideal. My bar is so high. You know what I mean? My ideal is always high. Always trying to reach that. But with this model that I’m working for.

How can I do that?

Alejandro DeSince: Thank you so much for putting that to perspective for us, Ji-hye.

Julia Bennett: If I can just intersect Ji-hye, if you don’t mind. I just wanted to appreciate Ji-hye that you also have come from a legacy that you’re continuing to build.

Because folks, Ji-hye’s dad, god rest his soul, was an acupuncturist who served the Korean community for a long time and in a very profound way.

So Ji-hye I just wanted to shout out, your dad, and how elegantly you’re standing in his vision for sure. So thank you. I just wanted to make sure that we hollered him out.

Alejandro DeSince: Thank you for that Julia. Now we actually have a briefly scheduled pause. So if you need a bio break please go on ahead.

But if you’d like to stay in the space, we’ll actually have a guided chair yoga practice, being offered in this main space by Maisah Hargett, a passionate and multi-faceted yoga instructor.

Versed in many styles of yoga. And a brilliant educator. So I’ll allow her to introduce herself a little bit more. And for those of us who are going on a little self-guided bio break, let’s just be sure to be back with our cameras on in about 5 minutes, alright?

Without further ado, Maisah, please.

[Bio break and guided chair yoga practice]

Maisah Hargett: Hi everybody.

My name is Maisah. I use gender pronouns of she and her. We’ll have about 5 minutes of seated movement. So I’m not going to do too much intro. ‘Cause, anyone who’s taken my class knows I can take 5 minutes for the intro!

You can sit in any way that’s comfortable for you. And you don’t need to be seated in a chair. Most of what I’m going to offer you can do seated on the ground.

You can be standing. Or you could be anywhere else that makes sense for you. For a little bit of a foundation.

So we’re talking about roots to seeds. Find some place where you can root. And to make sure foundationally you’ve got senses that can take me in. Just if somebody can give me a thumbs up if you can hear me?

OK cool. It looks like I’m fully on screen here. You can’t see my feet because of the socks. OK.

So let’s take a moment just to kind of feel wherever your feet are touching the ground. Kind of your proxy for the earth right now.

I took a training with Mama Julia in October. And she mentioned in that, what a shame it is that we pave and cover up so much of the earth. And it makes it a little harder to hear.

So go ahead and give yourself a chance to really make contact. It might be through movement. Might be just the contact of your awareness down to your feet.

And just bring a little bit of homage or awareness to the ground that’s kind of holding all of it up. Whatever’s underneath your feet right now.

And then what has learning about or being a part of or touching Third Root allowed you to root a little more into? We’ve heard from people who kind of were instrumental in rooting this particular organization and the ways in which they have rooted their own work and their own self-study as well as the work of ancestors that have come before.

And invite some awareness. A little higher up the legs. Sense your knees and your thighs.

I’ll invite you now to bring your hands together. And let’s give them a rub.

[Rubbing hands]

Get a little heat here.

[Rubbing]

And we’ll slow the rub down. And that heat is energy.

You’re going to bring your hands just slightly apart.

And take them a little farther. And bring them just shy of touching.

Notice any energy or magnetism you can feel there.

Any part of yourself, even if you couldn’t see it, that was a little more apparent to you through the way you have felt the touch of Third Root or, especially for those of you who have visited and supported us, the way that you have touched Third Root.

You have offered this energy to all of us.

We’re going to press the palms together again. This is the present.

As you breathe you in, invitation to sweep the arms out wide to the side. We’ve got that ribbon that Geleni mentioned.

Left hand kind of being the past here. Us reaching and acknowledging all the shoulders. All the foundation that we are held up by.

And then our continuing to practice, to give energy to all of this keeps us alive for the right hand, the future.

Inhale, welcoming whatever it is that you’re sensing right now, letting it be what needs to be in this moment.

As you exhale, pressing the palms together, drawing past and future together back to this present.

Let’s do that twice more, your own time.

[Breathing]

Last one. Welcoming in whatever it is that you need right now.

As you exhale, this present, let this also be a gesture of gratitude, of thank you.

As you breathe in, invitation to take the hands now to opposite shoulders. We’ll give ourselves a little bit of a hug.

Have a little compassion claw here. You’ll just give yourself some squeezes down your own arms.

Then you’ll switch the cross. And one more time. We’re just giving ourselves that compassion first.

And then root down through your legs. Breathe in and sweep the arms back and let’s puff the chest a little bit forward.

It’s that receptivity that we’re sending. Any open-heartedness we have received from Third Root or maybe even generated a little more in our own kind of self study, or filling up. As we’ve come in contact with each other.

Give yourself a little nod here, a little yes. A little physical affirmation for whatever you’ll keep with you. Whatever you’ve rooted into and you can allow to grow a little bit.

That will just be one small part of Third Root’s legacy.

As you breathe in we’ll come neutral in the spine. Sweep your arms up any amount.

This gesture of aspiration, of growth. Can you root while we rise?

We’ve also just been sitting a long time! [Laughing.]

Take a big breath in here. Open your jaw, sigh it out. [Sighing out]

Breathe in, taking in what you need from this moment, from the world around you. And if you’re a more literal person, oxygen. As you exhale, giving back to the world around you carbon dioxide for the plants.

Acknowledging your need to release as needed.

We’ll let the arms come down.

And then go ahead and find a little dance for yourself here. A little less guided by me. A little more guided by what you can feel you need.

Every time you can, start to honor your own needs. As many of the panelists talked about, you’re actually making space for others to do the same.

So you’re modeling that it’s OK to do what you need. You’re making it a little easier for others to root into that, and for that to grow. To be a little more of a custom and a culture in whatever spaces, communities, identities that you inhabit.

And we’ll join back together now.

Sense the crown of your head growing up toward that aspiration.

And your feet plant down.

As we start to find our way back to the space, sense that constant cycle. Even if we don’t get a chance to be conscious of it all the time, of taking in what you need as you inhale.

Maybe you pause. You keep that breath for you for a second.

And then the cycle. Everything ends. Letting that go back out as you exhale.

And maybe the pause, that’s kind of your body figuring out how to reset and start again.

Start to take a look at the screen. And welcome back in the faces of community here.

Alejandro DeSince: Thank you so so much Maisah for that beautiful little juicy movements.

Hopefully folks are settled and ready for this last half of our panel discussion.

Joining me up here in addition to our slide presentation will be the two members of the collective that I’ve had the personal honor and pleasure working with most closely over these past nine months. Emily Kramer, who’s a yoga teacher, operations manager, and worker-owner at Third Root since 2011.

And mama to our HR of people, Baby Valentino. He keeps us on schedule, lets us know if our meetings are going too long, and makes sure that we are checking in with ourselves and our need for naps and nourishment.

Also joining me is Vanessa Nisperos, who’s been with Third Root for about 12 years at this point, as client, as volunteer, as staff, and in the past year and a half as Center Director and collective owner as well.

Thank you both for joining me up here.

Emily, I’ll pass the mic to you.

Emily J. Kramer: Thank you. Wow. Wow.

Maisah that was a beautiful moment to take a breath and I’m just finding that I need to take a breath again as we walk into this reflection together.

So, if you’ll just join me, fill your lungs.

Fill yourself with this saturated experience of togetherness. And as you let go, exhale, start to have that letting go process sink in.

Feeling like each moment of this, it’s like I’m slowly opening a gift. That’s what this feels like. Like wow! What’s going to be next?

The gift is actually going to dissolve in my hands. I don’t know how to describe it.

Anyway, I’m just trying to take this in.

I wanted to take a moment to acknowledge the many folks that are not necessarily on this call. Some of whom are on this call.

There have been a number of collective members over the years and noteworthy staff people.

I’m just going to read some names down. We really want to make sure that recognition is due for everyone who’s contributed to making this place what it is. It would not be what it is without the work of Ji-hye, thank you for being here.

D Dixon, who is also on this call, who is one of our original collective members.

As somebody who took care of all sorts of tech behind the scenes, admin, bless you. Thank you thank you thank you for being here today.

Angela Ueckerman, Telesh Lopez, Stephen Switzer, Doreen Kramer, Kate Johnson, Joanna Qina’au Kelly, Sherley Accime, Christina Baal, Eulix Vargas, Emily Landry, Shri Diehl, and a whole host of others.

I’m going to name them quickly. Nanyamka Francique, Avi-Rose, Anyanwu, Teresa Theophano, and also finally Peter Pankin, who I know is also here in attendance. Who was a huge part of our beginnings and was a guiding force, particularly in providing accessible space for folks dealing with addiction in the NADA protocol that Julia spoke so beautifully about at the start of the practice.

So just a moment’s acknowledgement to all of those incredible people.

And more. So many people on this call have contributed as staff, as volunteers, as community members, as teachers, just really welcoming everybody into this space in all of the ways that you have continued to support. And for being here right now.

I wanted to just give a brief nod as well to the impact of our work. I have some numbers that I’m going to read out about who we’ve served. How many people we’ve served. This is all guestimation because we are not a nonprofit. We don’t rigorously track our stats.

Based on my estimation, we’ve served over 300,000 people at Third Root. Just take that in. 300,000 people. If we could see all those people in one moment, that is some serious impact right?

People walk in the space and they say wow! I feel different. This place is special. Well here’s the reason, right? 300,000 people have been impacted by this work.

We’ve held over 15,000 yoga classes. 15,000. There have been over 160 people as workers at Third Root. Take that in for a minute. 160 people as workers. Many of you on this call have been those workers. Thank you for your service.

And here’s the real statistic that really is just, bang it to ’em.

Over a million treatments offered. Over a million. That’s number of people in the classes. People on that table. Getting a massage. Going to a class. Being in a workshop. A million.

Think about the power of that. It’s incredible. The kind of transformation that happens even in just our own experience in one class. Multiply that by one million. That’s an incredible number that we’re thinking about here that we’re trying to even put our brains around.

So, I just thank all of you for making that possible.

There’s so much more to say and reflect on and I know that we are getting short on time. So I’m going to leave it at that for the moment. And maybe there’ll be a chance to reflect a little further as we move along. But I’m going to turn it back to Alejandro, perhaps then to Vanessa.

Alejandro DeSince: Thanks Emily, that is incredible. That’s a lot of treatments. Just a quick question to the audience, if you’ve received one of those treatments over the last 13 years, please feel free to drop in the comments what’s been your go-to or favorite treatment that you’ve been part of in Third Root’s 13-year history.

Whether that’s been acupuncture, yoga classes, message, Thai bodywork in the past year, herbal consultations, telehealth and more.

Community acu with Mama Julia.

Beautiful.

Seeing some beautiful shares. I’m just going to keep enjoying these shares as I introduce Vanessa again, who again has been with Third Root for about 12 of its 13 years.

Could you maybe just start with sharing a little bit about your journey with Third Root in all of its forms and capacities?

Vanessa Nisperos: Thank you so much. I had the great honor and privilege of living right across the street and hearing about the founding of this incredible space. And joining as a volunteer and really being one of those people that was able to access services really in the spirit of the vision that Jacoby and Julia and Green talked about.

Like folks that couldn’t afford to be in spaces and Third Root’s robust volunteer exchange program allowed me to participate and enjoy yoga.

And I fell away from the practice for a while until I became very ill. And after childbirth reconnected to the deep care in healing that’s happened in those green walls.

And it was part of my healing process of healing from cancer after giving birth. To be able to participate in acupuncture and I still have a bag that I kept as a souvenir of herbs that Jacoby just mixed me up in the apothecary after hearing that I was not well.

Just knowing that this place has existed and that that’s one of those million stories of the impact that we’ve had. I just want to say thank you, thank you, thank you. If your ears are hearing this, if you’re on this Zoom, you’ve played a contributing role in some capacity to holding this magnificent container.

And when we envisioned this Zoom we thought about these deep roots that were planted. The taproot that Third Root was envisioned as 13 years ago.

And the dandelion that’s graced our wall. That now we’re in the moment of seeds, of being that seed, that dandelion that people blow on to make a wish.

And I’m going to talk for a moment about our wish for healing justice going forward. Because we know that many of you practitioners here have gone on to create spaces that really hold social justice central.

Have gone on to hold spaces that hold some of the tenets that were spoken to earlier when Roopa was able to join us.

As the person who I remember starting hip-hop yoga in Flatbush many years ago, Roopa also brought in conversations nationally around accountability, and cultural cooptation within some of the practices that we hold.

What a full circle moment, then to have this conversation moderated by you Alejandro, who’s going to go on to study Kemetic yoga, and continue to contribute to deepening practices for people of color throughout Brooklyn and New York City.

Out of the experiences that people just spoke to, there have been many challenges at Third Root. And we’ve really taken on being in community with each other to move through that friction and refine our processes.

And we are putting out recommendations in our closing that’ll be archived on the thirdroot.org website that really speak to some of these recommendations.

And these are core healing justice principles that we hope to move forward for any business in the future that calls itself “healing justice.”

As you mentioned earlier Geleni, even some of our parallel organizations throughout the country have said that Third Root’s one of the few places where we’ve gotten to actualize and put into practice what healing justice looks like as a business model.

And out of that we hope that there will be future iterations of this work. Whatever it will be called.

That it has these key tenets. The first one being ownership and decision-making always held by those most impacted by health disparities. In any zipcode.

And there is tons more research now on social determinants of health than there was 13 years ago. And we can look up, in any zipcode, who are the folks that are most impacted?

Who are the folks that are most marginalized? And how do we create containers where folks are at the helm of decision making and shaping services?

And that evolved over time of the 13 years at Third Root. And many people contributed to that being one of the points of our learning.

The second point being that healing justice centers are created in owned spaces. What we learned at Third Root in the most rapidly gentrifying neighborhood in Brooklyn in Ditmas Park was that, we are such a contribution to community that without ownership we ultimately contribute to our own gentrification out of a space.

We bring value to neighborhoods. And that ultimately values the properties. And that means rents go up.

And that in the future iterations of work, having owned space, having land, having places that we are able to own the equity in, will mean that we don’t get displaced over time. And that was one of the pieces of the story of our closing.

Pathways for free and low-cost services always being built in for those most impacted. Like in the very beginning, the volunteer exchange program that was created from the founding of Third Root.

All the way through our current iteration of the Collective Care Fund. We have funded services for 117 people who are Black, indigenous, intergenerational Brooklyn residents, trans, disabled, and these services were offered at low-cost or free. Out of the almost 60,000 dollars that was raised for the Collective Care Fund.

An additional recommendation for future of healing justice is that there’s a profit sharing model that can contribute to a living wage for all folks.

And especially thank you to the founding people that have joined the call who were here in the early years when a living wage was not even on the table.

Yet you guys persisted to contribute your energy, your time, and sometimes even your own personal resources so that this vision could come to fruition.

And that so folks can learn maybe how to do it better. And without being able to provide a living wage is it really a profit? And is it something that can sustain?

And we are glad that we were able to move to that point at least in the final years of the business.

And the final piece is that there is a continual questioning and learning process to continually define together what healing justice and social justice means.

And part of that is that folks that come from positions of privilege work towards participating in some of the trainings that are available in New York City.

We have the Challenging White Supremacy workshop. There’s always spaces where folks continually be in dialogue, to continue to refine and evolve how we define healing justice going forward.

And so those were some of the recommendations that we put out to our other parallel organizations. And to some of our staff here that will be continuing on to launch future endeavors, we really hope that those wishes, those seeds for healing justice take root in future iterations of the work.

And really, thank you Emily for crunching those numbers, and being such a grounding force for this work to continue. It literally is bringing a few tears to my eyes to just think about a million unique services.

A million butts sitting in yoga mats in that green room. A million people who’ve come in for acupuncture and massage. Just what a profound impact that we’ve all been able to be a part of. So thank you all.

Alejandro DeSince: Thank you both.

Going to invite a few other panelists to join us up here to continue sharing any lessons and reflections.

But also to ask the question of, the flowers and seeds that have come from Third Root. In what ways are folks offering healing now? How might folks connect with your work? What are your personal and professional wishes for the future of healing justice work?

And wishes for the next generation.

I know we had a few folks who wanted to at least pop in with a few thoughts on that. I know Emily, you’re one of them. I believe MJ did as well.

And while Emily and MJ share, I’d also like at this time to invite folks, all of our audience members to begin typing questions into the chat for the brief Q&A that we’ll be having in just a few minutes.

If there any burning questions on your heart or mind, please feel free to drop them in the chat.

If you’re in a space where you can unmute, we’ll definitely welcome you to voice your question yourself. Otherwise we’ll be able to read it for you as well.

Without further ado I’ll pass it over to Emily and them MJ.

Emily J. Kramer: Thank you so much.

I just wanted to piggyback off of what Vanessa was just sharing around best practices for organizations moving forward. I think I really want to highlight as well something that many of the panelists have already said.

Which is this great paradox that we’re living inside of. Not only living inside of capitalism but also living inside of all the different social oppressions that are really real and that come into play when we try to do something conscious. And that that doesn’t sort of absolve us of any of those histories.

That doesn’t absolve us of any of the harms that happen. And I feel that, if we were an organization that had the resources to offer a really good job, to offer benefits and an opportunity to be financially successful in this job, I think we would have seen a really different pattern of equity show up in the work.

I think that often what ended up happening is those who are in most financial need weren’t able to stay in the work.

And that fell along the lines of race and other social determinants. It’s sad to see that. And it’s sad we weren’t able to provide for each other in that way. And to provide a real- this is the actual real work that we need to be doing.

And it’s hard to rely on the revenue that’s coming from a gentrifying community. It presents a real double-edged sword. So there’s a lot of ways in which I wish that we’d had the resources, the time, to really be doing the deep internal work.

To really be compensating ourselves and each other really well. To be able to offer to the gentrifying community that really did patronize Third Root quite a bit and was very transformed by the work.

As well to offer learning opportunities that were really deep and meaningful. Specifically for folks that are white. And myself as someone who’s in leadership as a white person, that’s something that I wish that I would have been able to take more leadership in in our community.

To do that kind of unlearning work together.

It’s a recommendation but also then how do you start with the revenue, the resources to actually be able to offer that at the outset? It’s almost like, well then do you not do it if you don’t have that, right? What is the alternative?

It’s a lot of really tough corners and edges I think that we all were bumping up against for a really long time.

And I think that despite that, tremendous healing has happened. Tremendous learning has happened.

So the question for me isn’t well then don’t do it. But it’s continue to always be in a process of learning. And always know that harm is going to happen. You don’t walk in the room and leave everything behind, right?

It’s not an even playing field. Even within the most beautiful places, in the most beautifully intentioned of places.

I wanted to add that because I feel it’s really relevant as a thread connecting many of the different things that have been said. And there’s so much more to say about that.

I don’t want to take a lot more space to reflect on it. I know we’re shifting into the flowers and seeds, and what are we continuing to offer.

I’m going to pop it on over to MJ from here. Thank you so much for listening.

Dr. Makeba “MJ” Judge: Emily, I’m really going to just feed off what you just said. Because my goodness, how finances came into play throughout- it touched every aspect of leadership in Third Root. From the worker side, from all of us, the whole collective.

From the aspect of just how we’re able to navigate just on a day to day basis. Taking care of our most simple needs, to wanting to offer these wonderful programs that we were doing at Third Root.

One of the questions that was posed was about, what are our wishes for the future generations? I took that as, I thought you were asking about the future generation of healers.

So I’m going to answer to that. Was that what it was? OK.

I do want to- and this is also feeding right off of what Emily just mentioned. And you as well, Vanessa.

Looking at health as not just the absence of disease within the body. I’m talking to yoga instructors, licensed massage therapists, acupuncture physicians. I’m talking to the herbalists, I’m talking to everyone when I say that health needs to be looked at as a much broader thing.

Health is social, it’s physical, it’s financial, it’s romantic, it’s familial. There’s so much involved in health.

And I want to challenge practitioners to really prioritize health in all those different aspects of their life.

Because there is always this thing that we feel we’re negotiating, healing and our own health versus making a profit to survive. And it doesn’t need to be that way.

We have to find some way to make both of those things work in the same space in our lives.

And so I think that prioritizing health and happiness and joy is so important as a healer.

So if I can just give any advice to future healers who are looking to replicate the model of Third Root, or make their own model in the future, is to really take care of your own health in all of those different aspects.

Because you will be so limited in what you can do for others if your health is not taken care of. Again that’s mental, spiritual, physical, social, financial, all of those different things.

One of the reasons that I left New York was to prioritize my own health.

Not speaking about Third Root, but as an acupuncturist, coming out, going into the field in New York, treating in no-fault clinics, seeing upwards of 100 people a day. And you acupuncturists know what I’m talking about.

100 people per day. Through 12 rooms. And herniating a couple of my discs in that. Now I can tell you in my own practice here in Florida, I probably turn more people away than I actually see.

Things are my term now. And for me that was revolutionary, for me.

And now I’m able to do so much more for the people that I do see.

And I’m able to do so much more for the community because I state, this is my rate. I’m not interested in anything else but you making sure that you’re going to honor my rates. And you’re going to honor my time.

And this is something that again always has to be negotiated as a practitioner. And I really recommend that you read, Woke Doesn’t Mean Broke by Billy Carson. It’s a very amazing book! [Laughing]

He actually lives very very close to me down here.

And was able to give me this book in my hand. And I have to say that if you’re a practitioner, if you’re a healer, an empath, if you’re a spiritual person and you’re constantly in this flux of trying to figure out how do I earn a living while trying to do the work?

Then I strongly recommend that you read that book. That’s what I have to say about that. In just those future seeds, yeah.

Prioritize yourself and your own healing. And I’m telling you, you will have energy to light all those other candles. Of everyone else. In such a more bright way. When you yourself are healthy and grounded and rooted and able to take care of yourself. Thank you.

Alejandro DeSince: Thank you so much MJ.

With the time that’s left I’d love to invite any of our panelists to raise their virtual or physical hand. So we can get you up here and spotlit to respond to the same questions or share any final thoughts and reflection that are coming to mind for you.

I see Jacoby. Feel free to go ahead and unmute yourself.

Jacoby Ballard: Hi y’all. Come here Gigi.

Sorry I have a toddler coming in. Come here!

[Laughing.]

Vanessa Nisperos: Thank you ’cause all the generations of Third Root babies who’ve come up in the healing justice legacy now!

Jacoby Ballard: One of the things that Makeba’s share just made me think of was, you know that health has been used as a weapon against so many targeted communities. Right?

Questioning the allopathic notion of health is so important. I also think that all of our modalities that are so much older than allopathic medicine have so much to offer in valuing a lot of different kinds of bodies and embodiments and thinking about balance in a way that doesn’t prioritize one kind of body or mind over another.

I’m thinking about- sorry- do you want to say hi, Gigi?

Gigi: Hi!

Jacoby Ballard: [Laughing]

I think the theory and the philosophy of all our modalities around health is really important to embrace. And put at the forefront of any kind of healing projects going forward.

Alejandro DeSince: Holding the floor for any other current or former co-owners that’d love to share.

And would also love to invite a past worker practitioner from Third Root, Mona to join us up on the panel as well. Who’d love to share a few thoughts. Maisah as well. If you have anything you’d like to share.

Mona: Yes, thanks to Alejandro. You all know Third Root has played a huge part in my life. It’s so appropriate that we open this talking about whose land we’re standing on. And really whose shoulders we’re standing on.

And I feel like the legacy is huge and the context is huge. And of course I’m one of those people, I feel like I stand on the shoulders of Third Root.

Third Root was the inspiration for me when my community organization was being attacked for basically standing up for Arab and Palestinian communities.

Third Root inspired me to go into acupuncture school sooner than later. After I took the herbal class. Then of course I had the honor of practicing at Third Root.

And taking a lot of yoga classes, etc.

I feel like it’s important to just say that Third Root is closing right now. Right now in this pandemic.

And that’s huge because so many community acupuncture clinics in New York have closed. I can’t even count how many. You know? City Acupuncture closed most of their branches.

Brooklyn Open Acupuncture closed. I believe Minka’s community acupuncture closed.

So this is happening now. As someone who right now is still in community acupuncture and recently opened a community acupuncture clinic, I would look to Third Root for sort of like leadership at this point.

Or maybe later would be the time when you all have time to digest what has happened.

In my mind, what’s happening right now is a huge transfer of wealth right? From us to the .001% of the wealthiest people in the world.

I don’t really think at this moment what’s happening is about a pandemic. I think that these pandemic measures that are shutting down businesses are about that transfer of wealth. OK?

And I feel my community clinic possibly also considering closing. And now knowing what’s going to happen next.

And I feel like, of course this is part of what’s always happened.

This is part of what happened to the original people of this land right?

That transfer of wealth. The wealth of the land. And of their agency to the capitalists.

So, I think I just want to put that out there. That in my mind, this is the context. And isn’t it interesting that we’re living in this fascist time right now. Where supposedly the only way to heal this respiratory illness is through the most damaging and dangerous vaccine ever made.

And there’s no talk of actual treatment of the illness. There’s no talk of medicinals, of the multiple pharmaceuticals and herbals and nutraceuticals that work.

And we’re seeing all of these great communities close right now.

So I just want to put it in context of that legacy.

I honor all of you guys for the amazing work that you’ve done. And I also mourn your loss.

Thanks Alejandro.

Alejandro DeSince: Thank you so much for sharing, Mona.

Jomo I know you wanted to get in here as well.

Jomo Alakoye-Simmons: Yeah. Can everybody hear me? I appreciate what Mona said.

I had a moment in hearing Mona speaking. Thinking about redacting what I was going to say. Or just saying no I’m not going to raise my hand.

So, my strong recommendations for those of us who are continuing this work. Stand in power.

Your points of perspective, even if they differ, are very important. Because it is not one person who makes the pot.

It’s all of us. It’s a gumbo.

Differing opinions are important. But it’s also important that they’re all heard, and listened to.

To not redact what I was going to say, right before COVID struck, across the street from where I lived in Bushwick at the time, 2 years ago, I would run.

And I’d run on the track. I had a moment where I realized, there’s the power of words.

We all know that. Well not all of us.

But there’s power in words. Words evoke and invoke energy. That can ripple. I realized how long- I’m 49 or 50 depending on how you count. So this is 2 years ago. For basically 47 years of my life I’ve been hearing “survive.”

In that moment of running, I actually said, I’m no longer going to survive. I’m going to thrive. That became my mantra, my affirmation daily, that I’m thriving. I knew what thriving looked like for other people but for me, I saw my life begin to shift. And my commitment to doing the work in the community continued. I still saw that happening, even as I began to thrive.

So I do appreciate what Mona expressed because all of those institutions that have closed, I know all of those individuals who operated them or people who worked at those spaces.

So I’ll lastly say we’re built to adapt. And the statement that Dr. Robert Woodbine said back 2008, there are millions of places in this country and globally that need our support. And that will welcome our support.

So if you leave New York, there’s someplace else you can go where you’re going to continue doing the same work.

And in fact, this is the truth that I’ve experienced and I’ve heard this. That New York state of mind. If you can do it in New York you can do it anywhere? It’s fuckin’ real.

You can do this shit anywhere.

And I’m native New York born. Coming back and, yeah you can do this anywhere. That’s all I want to say.

Alejandro DeSince: Thank you thank you my brother.

Love the final comment as we transition into a closing and a thank you.

I’m sure we could have a whole series of panels on just any one of these sections of the conversation that we’ve held tonight.

And at this time we’re going to be keeping the call open for a few minutes past 5. If anyone would like to share any words of gratitude or farewells. So please feel free to stick around if you can.

We also have the closing slideshow that we would love to share with you all.

Sharing just a small snippet of the magic that’s happened in the 13 years. Before we get to that, I think we have one final closing reflection from Mama Julia. Along with a closing prayer for us.

So thank you again, Mama Julia for offering your time and your energy to us all.

In this moment of connection.

Julia Bennett: This has been an incredible moment. And I’m just so grateful to be in this moment with each one of you. It’s truly been a gift. And I really can’t say any more than what everybody has already said.

But I just want to leave us with not so much a prayer. Because we’re all from multiple religious traditions. Some of us not even any.

But we’re all here on the planet together, whether we believe in the same things or not.

But I ask of us, in these moments as we move forward in this great gratitude of Third Root, that we hold on to our memory. That we remember first our humanity. And that we walk elegantly and committed to stand in that.

May we remember who we come from. Where we come from. We come from the land, the earth. May we honor that.

The earth is our great provider. And all of the indigenous folks who nurtured the land, may we honor that.

And may we continue to cultivate our humanity through nurturing and honoring the land that we stand on. Every single day.

And may we honor the in between moments that we’ve walked this journey. And just appreciate waking up in the morning. Having breath and the opportunity to do something today that we couldn’t figure out how to do yesterday.

In that, may that be always reaching for our highest good.

And may we value our lives. As Makeba said, may we remember all of the ways that we can take good care of ourselves. Because ultimately, again as she shared, and as well we all know that we cannot be the best service to anyone if we’re not taking care of ourselves. And I’m reminded of that by people in my life that I love. And so my partner Stacey is always, always reminding me of that.

And so I thank her for that. And I thank everyone who reminds me of how important it is to take care of yourself.

And not just to be taking care of yourself. But to be partners with the energy on the planet that loves us back.

Taking care of ourselves means we’re loving back to that which created us.

And so I just ask that we continue to move forward. I’m so appreciative and so grateful for this opportunity to have touched and been touched by over 300,000 lives. How phenomenal is that. May we continue to value life, value each other, and value the journey.

And I thank each one of you again right now in this moment, and forever more. And I give thanks.

Alejandro DeSince: Thank you so so so much, Mama Julia. And thank you to everyone who’s been part of this 13-year legacy, this 13-year story, this 13-year chapter, honestly.

Because we’re just turning the page and beginning a new entry with Third Root in our hearts wherever we go.

Before we get into our closing slideshow, I’m going to re-invite Vanessa up here for just a moment.

Who has a few final closing words of gratitude and appreciation as our Center Director.

Vanessa Nisperos: Thank you so much. And I’m just affirming what everyone’s saying in chat. Julia, you have been the heart and soul of this story of healing justice that we’ve been on. If we could only commit our lives a tiny bit to the degree that you have, to the work of healing the most marginalized communities, this world would be a tremendous place.

I’m glad to know you, as everyone is affirming in the chat. I think in the future if we just have a Zoom link where folks can hear from Mama Julia, as we move forward in our lives, that would be a welcome contribution for all of our healing journeys. And all of our support as healers.

I do want to thank Alejandro. If we can just unmute and give snaps and claps for the space that you’ve held today.

And the space that you’ve held tremendously through these last years of offering health services during a pandemic is not a joke. You’ve held it with such grace and incredible wisdom and contribution.

I also wanted to thank is of our- thank you Mona for mentioning that this pandemic is a huge reason why we are closing at the moment that we are.

And there has been so much work that practitioners have put in to continue to provide services through this pandemic.

I wanted to thank Calia, who’s continued to offer Brown Sugar Yoga all through the pandemic. Some of our practitioners that have continued to see clients in person like Geleni, Holly Sass who is on our Zoom today and has been listening in.

Jess Saldana who has held the physical location and supported us in our operations this final year.

There’s a few other people that dropped off the call. Maisah who led our movement for a moment was one of our space holders.

Jenny and many of our practitioners really went through so much to continue to offer services in this community when it was doubly and triply needed. Thank you to all of you who have brought Third Root to this final chapter of our work. And Kiki, holding space all the way from the west coast, thank you so much for all the space that you’ve held.

And absolutely not least, Emily, who had an entire human during this pandemic and continued to make sure that everyone was paid, that our doors stayed open, and that we were able to continue serving the community.

We know the need is quadruple what it was before this pandemic. We know that we will do our best in the last few moments that we have to pass on the torch and support those of you that are continuing to offer these healing services. So thank you, so much for your contribution.

Emily, if there’s anybody that I missed, please.

Geleni Fontaine: Can I jump in? I just want to really quickly thank folks who’ve been part of our- I forgot the word now. I got all pressured! [Laughing]

Folks who’ve been part of our circle, Maria and Mike. Who’ve helped to move us forward in so many different ways. Helped to bring resources into Third Root and more community.

I want to also- thank you so much. Also just really want to thank everything that you’ve done Vanessa. All the ways that you moved in. And you brought in leadership and compassion. And were able to grow us and I hope that you felt nourished by us as well.

It’s been so much and I know such a journey for you. That’s very personal. And spiritual. And I’m so honored we’ve been able to share that together.

And also to Shri who’s not here right now. Thank you so much to Shri.

I know there’s more. Other people can say more.

Emily J. Kramer: I really echo everything that the three of you have just shared about thank you’s. I want to mention Aeolus who has been just the guardian angel of our space, Rah Qui, who has also really done a tremendous amount of work just to keep this space open.

There’s so many unsung heroes of Third Root. There’s so many people who’ve graced the physical space. Who’ve supported with their finances, with their wisdom, with their prayers.

It’s hard to name and have a final acknowledgement. Yes, Jomo is saying Mukaram, the landlord, who really has been- it’s a mixed bag. He cut off our lease but, he is a real special person that we actually definitely consider a dear friend.

So many people have conspired to make Third Root what it is. It’s hard to have the last shout out right?

It’s endless. Everyone’s energy makes this place what it is, truly truly truly. Just to be here is very very powerful. To witness everyone’s presence here. And this recording will, if you’re watching this recording at a later date, we will have this available for folks to view with transcription.

And just so happy to have had this moment of closure. We’re going to be shifting to a slideshow. Which doesn’t represent every moment of Third Root but it represents a lot of really special moments. Especially from the very beginning.

So if you can stay on to watch the slideshow, we’ll also try to pepper into our website soon. And Alejandro’s going to speak a little bit to what our website’s going to be. And then we’ll see the slideshow.

Alejandro DeSince: Yes and actually before we get to the slideshow we’d love to invite a few minutes of shares from anyone in the audience as well.

Feel free to unmute yourselves. And just to recap what Vanessa said, a recording of this conversation along with all of the other resources that were mentioned.

A map of healing justice, up to date practitioner info, and a free archive of yoga classes is going to be available on a future of our website. So in the coming weeks if you’re on our newsletter you should get an update when that’s up and ready for you. Otherwise if you follow us on socials, you’ll get a notification that way as well.

Before we head over to the slideshow which has an appropriate song for it, just want to welcome and open the floor, the space for any of the folks who’ve been watching this conversation from afar to chime in with any thoughts that they’d like to share.

And if you can’t unmute, feel free to drop in the chat. Happy to read on your behalf if you’d like.

And so many of you have actually been sharing so many of your final thoughts and reflections and stories throughout this conversation. And since we’ve announced the closure. With our closing reflections form. Which should still be available on our website, should there be any stories or narratives you’d like to share with us in the archive in that way.

Yes. Thanks Mike for dropping that info! Stay in touch if you don’t already follow us on Instagram. You can do so at @thirdrootnyc

Or check us on our website at thirdroot.org

Without further ado, a final thank you to you all for being such a beautiful and amazing audience.

And handing it over to Mike who’ll get us to our beautiful slideshow.

Vanessa Nisperos: As the slideshow plays feel free to unmute, comment, chat. This link will stay open for a few minutes so folks can continue to shout each other out if you like.

Thank you Mike.

[♪ ♫ Boys II Men – “It’s So Hard to Say Goodbye to Yesterday” ♫]

Alejandro DeSince: Thank you everyone for joining us.

Zoom will stay open for a couple more minutes if anyone has any final thoughts they’d like to share, either in the chat or unmuting.

Thank you.

Maybe we can close out the way we began, taking one breath together.

From wherever we are, taking a moment to, as Maisah encouraged us, to feel the ground beneath us. Or whatever is forming your base. Your sense of connection to the earth.

Taking your hands, palms to your thighs.

One to your heart and one to your stomach.

Softening the eyes on a point ahead of you, or closing the eyes completely if that feels good to you.

Take a slow deep inhale for 4, 3, 2, and 1.

Holding at the top before exhaling for 6, and 5, 4, 3, 2, and 1.

Feel free to take another one of those if you like or need.

Thank you again for being part of our story.

[Participants saying goodbye’s]

[End of panel discussion.]